Protection & Welfare 10-30-17

Protection & Welfare 10-30-17


– What can I say? Oh I’m sorry, yeah yeah we got it. I just saw, yeah it was right here. Oh here you go.
– Thank you. Guy will probably be here. – We’ll get ‘er going. (chattering) Alright. We got the recorders going?
– Mm-hm. – Hear ye, hear ye, hear ye. The Protection Welfare Committee for Monday October 30th 2017 in City Hall room 207 is now in session. Alder Scannell, the Chair, is here. Alder Galvin is here,
Alder Dorff is excused. Alder Nennig is thankfully
stepping in, so we have a quorum. Thank you. And Alder Zima, I’m assuming,
will be showing up shortly. Take a motion to approve the agenda? – Motion approved. – Second. – All in favor? – [Group] Aye. – Opposed? Our agenda is approved. Approval of the minutes from
October ninth, 2017 meeting? – Motion approved.
– Second. – Motion by Alder Galvin,
seconded by Alder Nennig. All in favor? – [Group] Aye. – Opposed, that also passes. Now, before we get any further,
I want to remind everyone that everything the committee
does is just a recommendation to the full council. The full council gets the final say. And our next council meeting
is on the 14th of November. Usually it’s the following week from this, but we have budget items
coming up, our budget, so it’s gonna be pushed off a little. So, nothing’s final until the 14th. It’ll be seven o’clock
in the room next door. You gonna stay? – Well, you have quorum, so– – Oh okay. Well Alder Zima is here,
and Alder Nennig is leaving. – Thanks, Dave. – Yep, appreciate it. We are on item four, Alder
Zima, we just started. – I left my pack at home. – Oh. (talking over each other) Oh she’s getting, okay, we can
wait a second, if you like. – You can go ahead.
– Oh alright. Item number four, consideration
with possible action on a notice of change of
agent for Funke’s BC, LLC at 617 Lime Kiln Road. Staff? – We have no objections to that. – Gonna have to wait for her.
– Gonna have to wait legal. – I talked to her beforehand. She said “no objections”, but– – Well you know what, do you
solemnly swear? (laughing) – We talked about it beforehand. – Alright, okay. – But if you wanna wait, that’s fine. – Here she comes. – Just say “I concur”. – Run forth.
– Thank you. – Yes. – Do you concur that
there are no objections? – Yes, law department has no objections if the PD has no objections. – Yep.
– Yep, I concur. – We need a motion to approve. – Motion to approve? – Second. – By Alder Galvin, second by Alder Zima. All in favor? – [Group] Aye. – Opposed, that carries. – Are you with Funke’s?
– Yes. – We approve. – [Man] I just have a question. Are we gonna be getting
a new liquor license without the other name on it? Keith Hermans is the person
we want to have removed from our liquor license. – I believe so, I would try
calling the clerk’s office. – [Man] Okay, ’cause our
distributors wanted to know. – Yeah, I would double check
with the clerk’s office, but I think so.
– Okay, thank you. – Uh huh. – Number five consideration
with possible action on an application for an available Class B Combination License by
a Wirz Industries, LLC at 131 South Washington Street. Staff. – Law department has no objections. – We have no objections, either. – Motion approved. – Motion approved by Alder Zima. – Second. – Second by Alder Galvin, all in favor? – [Group] Aye. – Opposed? And that passes. Item number six consideration
with possible action on an application for a
Class B Combination License by Sunny’s Restaurant
at 875 Lombardi Avenue, currently Leatherhead Brewing Company. Staff? – Law department has no objections. – And Green Bay Police
Department has no objections. – Take a motion? – Motion approved. – Motion approved by Alder
Galvin, second by Alder Zima. All in favor? – [Group] Aye. – Opposed? And that also passes. Item seven consideration
with possible action on an application for a
Class B Combination License by Donald Rouse at 700 Bodart Street, currently Roundup Saloon. Staff? – Law department has no objections. The applicant did submit
a signed security plan which didn’t make it into your packets, but I added it in as an additional item.
– This one here? – Yes, so that was turned in today, so they have that in as well. – Okay. – Talked to the captain,
and he looked over the security plan, he thinks it’s good, and we have no objections. – Do you need a motion? – Sure, I’ll take a motion.
– I thought we had one. – No.
– I just have a question. – Oh, question, yeah. – It says here building capacity
says 50 for restaurants. Was this gonna be a tavern or
is it gonna be a restaurant or a combination of all of that? – [Donald] It’s not a restaurant. – What’s that? – [Donald] It’s not a restaurant. There’s a parking lot that
has 15 parking spots in it. – Well, it says 50, restaurant. It’s listed as a restaurant. – We could open the floor.
– We have a proof floor? – Motion to open the
floor by Alder Galvin. Seconded by Alder Zima, all in favor, aye. – The floor is now open. Anybody who would care to speak on this? Any information on this? – [Donald] Just looking
to clean up that corner and make it a lot better. – Are you the owner? – [Donald] Yes. – Please come up, state
your name and address. – [Donald] Donald Rouse. – And your address? – Business address or home address? – Home. – [Donald] 1371 Bellvue. – Thank you, and it’s not a restaurant? – [Donald] It is not. I’m gonna serve frozen
pizzas from Hybrid Pizza. That’s what my plan is. – So, would the building
capacity be 140 total or– – [Donald] 120, I don’t… – Here on page one, it
says building capacity, it says 50 restaurant, 90 bar. – And the security plan? – The security plan, I
got building capacity 120. – Here, it says building
capacity 50 restaurant, 90 bar. – This is not, that’s Jesse–
– This is number eight. – Oh– – The security plan is for number eight. I apologize. – Okay, nevermind, we got the wrong plan. (Donald laughing) – Yep.
– Nevermind. – That’s the right one.
– That’s the one I got. – That one should be in your packet. – That one’s in our packet. – Yep, yep. – You’re at the corner
of Quincy and Bodart? – Correct, correct.
– Yep, yep. – [Donald] It’s kind of been
an eyesore for a little bit. We got 16 new cameras going
up, inside and out, so. All good?
– Thank you, yeah. – Thank you gentlemen and lady. – Motion to close the floor. – Motion to close the
floor by Alder Galvin. – Second.
– Second by Alder Zima. Take a motion? – Motion approved. – Motion approved by Alder Galvin. – Second. – Second by Alder Zima, all in favor? – [Group] Aye. – Opposed? That passes. Item number eight. Oh, yeah, we should’ve seen that ’cause it says it right–
– Mm-hm. – Yeah, yeah, alright. Consideration with possible
action on an application for an available Class
B Combination License by Rinconcito Hondureno,
Inc at 805 Klaus Street. Staff? – The law department has no objections. – This is the one where I
talked to the Captain about. – Yes. – He said that everything’s good to go. – And this is the one we got right here? – Correct.
– Yes that’s correct. – So we were just given
that security plan. That just got in the evidence. – You know what that means in English? It means the Honduran corral. – Corral.
– Oh. – If I could just ask–
– Little corral. – Yes, (speaking in a foreign language) would have to be wouldn’t it? – Which bar was this one before? Labor Temple? – No.
– No, my boss, no. – I think that’s one right on the corner of Klaus and Webster there. Something– – You know he told but I
don’t remember what it was. – Okay, alright. I’m good.
– You’re good? I’ll take a motion. – Motion to approve. – Motion to approve by Alder Galvin. – Second. – Second by Alder Zima, all in favor? – [Group] Aye. – Opposed? That passes. Item number nine consideration
with possible action on an application for a
Class A Liquor License by Singh’s C Store Two, Inc.
at 952 West Mason Street. Currently has beer only. Staff? – Law department has no objections, however police department
does have some concerns to share with the committee. – Yeah we had some compliance checks that were done on that on April 11th. We did a compliance
check and they ended up, an employee sold to the, to our person that had
went in there to buy. And then the owner wasn’t onsite, and the person that was
there did not have a license. So, they got a citation for serving and then also for not
having a person onsite. Then May seventh, we
followed up, they did pass. But then on October 20th,
he’s the current owner of 610 East Walnut Street, and his name is Ramere Singh Shergill. We went in there, did a compliance check. We’re doing all of compliance,
not just on their’s. – Right, right, yes.
– All over the place. They sold to an underage person, and it was actually Mr. Shergill that was cited and sold to the person. When we talked to him,
he said that he was busy. He checked it, but he didn’t
look at it closely enough. So, those are our concerns. It’s up to you guys. – This is number nine, right? – Yes. Right now, they’re selling
beer, and they want to sell? – Liquor, Class A liquor, as well. – How often can they apply for a license? Every month, or– – I’m not sure if there’s a
limit, if they get denied, how long of a waiting
period there is in between. – ‘Cause he was denied, I
believe, a year or so ago. Less than that, I think. Remember that?
– Vaguely. – It’s the one that
needed the 2/3rds vote. – Yeah. – Why does it need a 2/3rds vote? – We had certain districts that
we made, right that were… What were those districts called? – It’s hard to recall anything about that. Typically they do if it’s
within that moratorium area. – Yeah, moratorium, thank you. That’s the area I was– – That’s not in a moratorium area. – At least, the clerk hasn’t flagged it as they typically would
flag it if it was in– – We had three of ’em that
night, if you remember, that all three of ’em didn’t pass. – This one was in my district, and, of course, they’ve
failed three times now. Or twice. – Well actually the place– – Two, it had two in the first
one and one on the second. – The first one was just one failure, but then the person that was
there didn’t have a license and you have to have somebody
with a license to sell or the owner, and the owner actually says he usually goes there or is there, but he had to go to his other place. That’s what he told us. And then other failure was
actually at the new place of 610 East Walnut Street,
which he also owns. – Well that shows a loose regard for them. Shows a loose regard for the
law and following the rules. – Just presenting the facts. – This says that, I mean we
denied three that one night, and I believe if we’re
going to grant this one, we should be granting the other two so I don’t believe
we’re at that stage yet, so I would just assume
not approve this anyway. I think they should all have
it or none should have it. But then there’s on top
of that, the issue here– – I agree with you. I think the city really
needs to look at these sites, these convenience stores. And there was an article
in the paper saying a lot of these stores are
becoming, what used to be, the neighborhood grocery stores. But I think we need to, the city should adopt
some kind of a policy so it’s pretty much all or none. They all have it or none of ’em do, just to make an even playing field. Obviously, if someone is, like
the Alderman Zima has said, they’re not following the
rules, I could see where you could definitely say no, but so that’s a side note, I guess. I apologize for digressing,
but I think that, considering the violations he’s had, and I know he’s probably just
trying to run his business, but he needs to do a better job. This community suffers from alcoholism and abuse of alcohol, and if
we’re not all doing our job, then we’re being a part of the problem. I would not be able to vote
at this time for the license. – Anything or a motion? – No, just in the general commentary, I just respectfully disagree
with you Mr. Galvin, because every situation is different. Some of ’em are very much alike. I don’t wanna say they’re all different, but I think that’s why
if that comes before us, if it was just a matter of signing up and getting your license, it would be an administrative function, it wouldn’t be a legislative function. So, we’re allowed to use our judgment. I’ve chosen on behalf of, to follow with my
neighborhood associations the best we can do. They think the more liquor
available in the neighborhood, the worse neighborhood. Of course that’s a matter
of opinion, I guess. But you know when you go to a bigger city, you see a dominance of certain types of businesses in an area, and that’s what helps bring them down. You keep your neighborhood stronger by having neighborhood-friendly
type businesses, and I think, people especially, they need to have licensed people onboard. They need to be really checking, and they, we do that over here. So I’ll close it with alcohol. I don’t personally have
anything against it, these folks at all. I’ve stopped in there and
maked purchases occasional ’cause it’s close to my house. But the three or four
neighborhood associations that I have to deal with
are unanimously opposed to any of these in the neighborhood. They think it strengthens the neighborhood to not have the sale of I guess
even alcohol, but you know. There is something else. I can’t remember what it is
now, ’cause we had three of ’em, but there was one that had
the head of a two-thirds. But it might have been
one of the other ones. – Yeah, it kind of blurs. I know we’ve dealt with the moratorium. – There is one establishment
that sells liquor that’s about a quarter of a mile away, but it’s a stand-alone business. That’s all it does. And when people’s whole
business is the sale of alcohol, and if they really value their license and they’re not dealing
with a lot of part-time help and all that sort of thing so. And our checks, usually when they fail, it’s because of part-time workers. The owners aren’t the one. So.
– Motion? – Motion to deny. – Second. – Motion to deny by Alder
Galvin, second by Alder Zima. I’ve stated my case on this. I don’t think I can say
anything else, so all in favor? – [Group] Aye. – Opposed? Okay, that motion is denied. Item 10 consideration with possible action on an appeal by Ronald Shebuski. Did I say it mostly correct? To the denial of his Public Vehicle Operator License application. Staff? – The law department
recommends denial based on the applicant’s history
of violations and offenses, including a prior OWI. – Police department concurs with that. – And to note, on the
denial memo that you have in front of you, his
license was suspended, but is currently valid. We did double-check that so. – [Ronald] The OWI is over 15 years– – We’ll open the floor,
you’ll get a chance. You gotta follow the procedure. – [Ronald] Sure, yeah. – We just need to take a
moment to study it all. – You said make a motion
to open the floor? – Motion to open the floor by Alder Zima. – Second. – Second by Alder Galvin, all in favor? – [Group] Aye. – Opposed, okay, the floor is now open. Just, please state your name and address. – [Ronald] Ron Shebuski,
105 Cleveland Street. – Is there anything you’d
like to share with us? – [Ronald] The OWI was over 15 years ago. I don’t have any problems with alcoholism or anything like that. The licensing issue, I
had to take care of that. That was due to an unpaid fine
that I didn’t have money for, so they suspended me. That is now taken care of. – Anyone got any questions? – Is your lawyer aware of the problems you’ve had with the law? – Yes. Yes.
– Who do you work for? – For Native Cab. – Native Cab? – Well, I haven’t even started work, yet. I’m trying to start work. – But that’d be the company.
– Correct. – Is that a licensed company in Green Bay? I’ve never heard of that one. – I’m assuming so. I don’t have the list
of licensed companies. – There’s a gentleman here,
maybe, that could help. – [Darryl] Yes it is, Guy. – Okay, thank you. Please state your name and address. – My name’s Darryl Cleveland.
3017 Gemini Road, Bellevue. – You’re here to vouch for him? – [Darryl] Yes, sir. I came before you a long time
ago to get my hard card, too, and I’m trying to help people
get their feet back in order. Alright the man came to
me, he wants to get a job, he wants to go straight. I don’t see any problem with it. He had some things with the law, and he actually helped
you regularly here in town for about a year to snap some people, to clean up some things,
to change his life. He told me, he came straight
to me and said that. Anybody who’s gonna come
to a man that has done any major time or anything like that and tell him that he was helping the police out like that let’s me know that he was actually trying
to help somebody out. I didn’t know about the 15 year old OWI, that I did not know about. Because I do not drink, I
haven’t drank in over 20 years, but I think this man coming
to me wanting to get a job, I do wanna try him out. Why not help him? We can’t keep closing
the door on everybody. You’ll resort right back
to what you were doing. – Where is your business at, sir? – [Darryl] It’s here in Green Bay. I locate out of my
house in Bellevue, yeah. – I mean, what is your business? – [Darru’] I run a taxicab. – Okay. – Do you have a taxicab
license in Green Bay? – [Darryl] Yes, I do. – Okay ’cause I don’t
remember one called Native, but did it have a different name before? – No, it’s been Native Cab. And I’m also just acquiring myself, taking over Green Bay Taxi, also. – Oh.
– Yes. – I guess I’m having some
problem understanding. Maybe you can explain it a little bit. ‘Cause it says that you displayed false vehicle registration plates
there in Vilas County. Registration of a vehicle,
operating while suspended in Green Bay area, improper display of registration player tape. What’s that all about? – Those were my old license
plates that were on the vehicle and I was hoping to transfer them, but they ended up making
me get new license plates. So that’s why those were on the vehicle and actually the police department– – This was your private car? – Correct. – You weren’t putting some improper– – No I wasn’t just putting
any old plate on there. This was my plate from my own vehicle– – Are you working right now? – That I was trying to transfer. – Are you working right now? – No, I’m just trying to get to work. – He’d need the operator’s
license before he can drive. – I thought when they applied, they have it until they give it. – Oh, I was not aware of that. – You have to wait until you’re actually licensed to start work. I’m just trying to get
my life back in order and get back working again. – ‘Cause it seems you
don’t wanna follow the law. You don’t have insurance. – I do have insurance.
– You don’t have money. When you’re in a hole, I know sometimes it’s pretty hard to– – I have all that taken care of now. – If you hurt somebody
without insurance then. – Right, I understand. – So, your Vilas County brush-up. You’ve got some charges pending. – Correct.
– Okay. So if the Operating was suspended and you’re convicted of that, will they re-suspend your license again? – [Ronald] I just went
to court the other day, and they dismissed three of them, and one of them they reduced
down to a lower fine. – You had four to begin with? – Correct.
– Okay. And they dismissed three of ’em? – [Ronald] Correct. – But are you going to end
up with a suspended license when it’s all said and done? – No, it was just until you pay the fine, and the fine’s been paid. – You’ve been pretty
lucky with all of this. – And you said that checked out. – [Ronald] It’s been a
headache it really has. – Well I mean it seems like
either they’re trumping up a lot of charges or you’re just getting lucky and dodging the bullet on a lot of these. – [Ronald] What the DA told
me was they would rather the money go towards me
getting my insurance, getting the registration,
getting everything taken care of rather than the city just
taking money for fines. – Okay. – [Ronald] That’s why
they threw that away. – So, they’re trying
to help you out there. – [Ronald] They were
trying to help me out. – Are you gonna take advantage of this? – [Ronald] I’m doing what I
can to get back on my feet. – Okay it just, you know,
and granted we can’t take into consideration
these other things, but you continue to have these brush-ups. Every year almost, and I’m
just, I’m hoping that– – I don’t wanna have any more brush-ups. – Well, I’m hoping you’re
seeing the light finally and this good gentleman’s giving you an opportunity to square it away. I mean how old are you now?
– 34. – It’s time, right?
– Right. – Gettin’ old?
– Gettin’ old. – Okay. – You don’t have many
more chances left in you. – I understand. – Anything else on the resume? – I’m a firm believer in young people. – Got any more questions? – No more questions.
– No questions, okay. Anything else you care to add? – [Ronald] No. – Thank you very much,
I’ve got no questions. Motion to close the floor? – Motion to close the floor. – Second. – Motion to Alder Galvin,
second to Alder Dorff. All in favor? – [Group] Aye. – The floor is now closed,
I’ll take a motion. – Motion to approve. – Motion to approve by Alder Galvin. – I’ll second it. – Second by Alder Zima. I also think we should
give him a second chance, so I’m in favor, all in favor? – [Group] Aye. – Opposed? That passes, but it’s not
final until it goes to council. – Thank you.
– Yep. – [Darryl] Have a good day, guys. – We are on item 11. Consideration with possible action on an appeal by Nicole
Skenandore to the denial of her Operator License application. Staff? – The law department recommends
denial of this appeal based on the history of
violations and offenses. Including the fact that she failed to disclose those violations. – We agree with the law department. We deny her. – You concur? – We concur with that, yes. – Is someone here for this? No one’s here. – I have a motion to
deny, and if she wants to, she can reapply back to us. They’ve been notified of the meeting? – Yep, she was notified by mail. – There’s a motion to
deny, is there a second? – Second. – Motion by Alder Galvin,
second by Alder Zima. All in favor? – [Group] Aye. – Opposed? Okay, that motion is denied. Item 12 discussion with possible action on an ordinance relating
to the prohibition of animals at special events
with an exception to allow for the discretion of
the special event holder in conjunction with the Special
Events approval process. Staff, do we have that ordinance? – We do have an ordinance package. – Woo hoo! – Let me pass that out. There’s a fairly simple
change addressing the concerns of the community at the last meeting. Essentially, taking out
the Celebrate America Fest and Archery provision and
putting in a blanket provision of any special event unless approved by the safety manager pursuant
to Green Bay municipal code section 6.15, which is our
special events ordinance. – That pretty much what
we were asking for, so it can be on a case-by-case basis. – Yes.
– So, if someone decides in the future that event A would
be nice to have pets there, dogs, whatever, they can apply
for it, it can be granted. – Yep. Essentially, any special
event animals are prohibited unless the event holder requests
for animals to be allowed which that will go through
the approval process laid out for the special events committee. – So, we’re not saying no definitively. It’s, there’s always that option. – Right.
– Right. It’s no unless approved, correct. – Anyone care to speak on this? Okay, take a motion. Oh, question first, well hang on. – I’m still a little bit
not understanding here. So it’s prohibitional, a person may bring an animal into the area or an event. Listed in subsection
two as being conducted without the permission
of a manager of an event, an authorized representative thereof. So, the event, not the city is gonna make a decision about it? – No, the Special Events Committee pursuant of ordinance makes the decision. So, the city would be making the decision. If the event holder wished
to have animals allowed, that would be part of
their application process until they have certain
insurance requirements that have to be in place and so on. Those are laid out by the safety manager in accordance with the
special event ordinance that we have in place. – Would they be done
administratively, then? – Yes. Pursuant to the Special Event Committee. – Well what if someone
didn’t like it, for instance? I mean what recourse do they have? ‘Cause it’s just an
administrative function. – Someone didn’t like
that they couldn’t bring or that they could? – Well let’s say somebody
went to an event, and they stepped in some dog dirt and ruined their nice pair
of shoes or something. They say, “why do they got animals here?” I’m just fabricating something. – Right. Well, I would think that the
special event management, they’re responsible. – The special event holder
would be responsible for handling any kind of
complaints or claims or actions or anything at that point. It would be a civil matter between the special event holder and the attendee of the special event. – Historically, a special
event is usually something like Bay Fest, what they used to have. It was a larger thing and they had to meet certain conditions and I thought those all came
through and were approved by– – Right, it goes through
Special Events Committee. – But I also thought it was also approved by council on the– – I believe it gets reported out, but the Special Event Committee
reviews the applications and approves them based
on certain criteria that’s set in the ordinance,
so they’re just applying the ordinance to each applicant. – And the only way it would come here is if they were denied
and they appealed it? Is that the idea? – Potentially, yeah. – Is there a provision for that here? – Whatever process for appealing a denial would be pursuant, would be contained in the special event ordinance in 6.15. – And that is in there, now? So, let’s have a for instance, here. We were talking about
farmer’s markets last time, and we traditionally
weren’t allowing them there. Somebody might bring one in their arms, and nobody knows the
difference or whatever, but it was a city-sponsored farmer market. Now, what happens when it’s
not a city-sponsored one? They just decide that they wanna allow ’em or not allow ’em? – Well my understanding is
that the farmer’s markets are not city-sponsored. They go through the special
event approval process, and if the special event
holder or the organization or individuals who are
holding the special event or the farmer’s market don’t
want to have animals present, they won’t be present
pursuant to this ordinance. If they want to have an exception and have animals be present, then they need to state
that in their application, and it has to be approved as part of the whole approval process
for the special event itself. This ordinance makes it that by default– – The farmer’s market that
used to be on Monroe Street and then moved down to Washington Street, that was a city-run farmer’s market. – I do not believe that is
a city-run farmer’s market. – And so that’s changed in all this? – The one on Washington Street, I believe is downtown– – Downtown.
– Downtown Green Bay, right. so they are the special event holder. They apply for the special event and go through the approval process. – Well, that’s a departure. That’s a change. So, who’s the Special Events Committee? – The Special Events Committee is made up of the safety manager,
I believe the Mayor’s chief of staff sits on
the committee as well, there’s representatives
from other departments. I’m not sure exactly who
makes up the committee, but it’s all organized pursuant to the special event ordinance,
which is in chapter 6.15. – Quite frankly, I feel uncomfortable when the legislative branch is cut out of all these decisions. I really feel that they
should come though here. A lot of times these
things are fairly routine, but sometimes they’re not. And it gives an opportunity for the public to have access through their
elected representatives. So I guess I would like to
see this amended to say that, you know I have no problem with
the Special Events Committee reviewing it, but it
should be brought here with a recommendation. And the legislative. I feel this administration does way too much administratively. I mean here we have the
Mayor’s chief of staff is gonna sit in on a committee so if the Mayor wants something
to happen, it’ll happen, and we have no say so about it. – What other items go
before this committee? – Any time anybody wants a special event. So, if there’s a marathon, like that. An organizer– – So a marathon goes before that event? – Right. There’s different categories
and levels of special events, and then those carry
certain requirements as far as insurance, as far as
emergency medical staff. They have to be present. Whether the PD has to be
involved for security. Whether the fire department
has to be involved. And so all those
representatives come to a table and review an application,
see how many people they’re expecting to have attend. And based on that, they
have a certain checklist that then the holder has to go through to make sure that the event is safe, that the proper insurance is on file. Naming the city as an additional insurer in case there’s any injury or damages. And then if all those
things are checked off, then the event can go forward. – So, what you’re asking
for is every special event in the city would now come
before us, to go through every checkbox for our
approval or disapproval? – That’s right. – So you wanna search something. You don’t wanna do it just for dogs. You wanna do it for, say,
a so-called marathon. You want them to come to us after they’ve been to the safety committee – Well they have– – And then you want us to
review that application. Are they gonna have enough cops? Are they gonna have enough
rescue squad people? Is there gonna be enough BPW set up? Are there gonna be enough volunteers? And you want us to go
through all that minutia just like the Safety Committee has to determine if we think
it’s gonna be run properly? – Like everything else
administrative, it has an oversight. Possibility. Most of the time, it isn’t problematic, but it does have a formality
that it goes through here, and if somebody has concern
about it, they can bring it up. – If something goes to the
Safety Committee right now, say the so-called marathon,
that’s what we’re on. The committee says we’re good
with everything as it’s setup. Does it come to council,
then, for a final approval? – I’m not entirely
certain as far as which– – I don’t think so.
– I don’t think so. It may get reported out, but I’m not, I don’t think it goes for approval. It’s akin to if somebody wants to film a commercial on the city deck. And we don’t have a film permit in place, but we require them to sign
a whole promise agreement. So for example, Parks
Department would contact myself, I would draft a hold if that’s what Parks Department wants to do,
wants to allow a film crew out on city deck to film a commercial. I draft the Hold Harmless Agreement with insurance provisions,
that they have to file a certificate of insurance deeming us as an additional insurer. Just certain policy limits. They agree to not damage the property, they will be responsible
for any damage on this date, from this time to this time. And then, they have the agreement, and they can move forward. And then that’s not something necessarily that goes to council. That’s something that’s
up to the discretion of the Parks Department director. – So it’s not necessarily
posted for the public to review or anything?
– No. – But if the commercial
is shot on city deck– – Because it’s on city property. – Someone who owns a business
says, “hey, wait a minute, “I don’t want them on city
deck in front of my property”. It’s too late, they’ve got permission. They shoot the commercial. That person has no recourse
unless they try and do it again, and again, they’re
gonna find out too late. Well Mr. Alderman if I
may, it just, you know, I’m not saying that
everything has to be the way it used to be or anything else. We can make changes any time we want to, but historically, we have
these things go through us. I mean we go through, people
want cab driver licenses, we have people that want liquor licenses. All those things have a final say here and on the council. I just shy away from things
that don’t even have a path to come through a legislative branch, that deprives the legislative branch from their oversight responsibilities. Now nine times out of 10, we’d probably rubber stamp and approve because we don’t find
anything wrong with it, but we at least have the opportunity to. I mean we just looked to a gentleman who had quite a long list of stuff. I didn’t feel a hundred
percent comfortable, but his sincerity overcame me, but I guess I’d prefer
that all special events, I mean, historically, they used to come, and they had to meet a lot of conditions and it gave opportunity for people to have questions about it. I don’t have 100% faith in something that’s really controlled
by higher administration. I think these things should
have to follow their path through the legislative body. That’s where abuse can come in. In other words, somebody’s
a real good contributor. Maybe they get a little
more special treatment than somebody who isn’t. I want to get away from
all that kind of stuff. So, I think this should
just be a normal process that involves the legislative
branch as a conditioning hand. I have no problem setting this up, but I think the final
approval has to come here even though it’ll be 99% of
the time, we rubber stamp. We don’t question 2/3rds
of what’s on our agenda. – I guess my concern is, I
do believe that people need to have the right to know what’s going on within our government, but
do we hit a tipping point where we start to mire
ourselves in too much of the minutia of operating this community and the events that go on in it? It’s already hard enough for many people at council meetings who wanna speak, and they don’t get their time because the meetings run on so long and even at some of these meetings the meetings run on so long that people can’t spend
hours waiting to get in and say what they feel they need to say. I guess my concern is that
we open that Pandora’s box, and I mean we’re in it for the long haul. We knew what we were getting
into when we got elected. – It’s a normal process. – But I just, I’m concerned that we’re gonna make it too long and too lengthy a process. Things that have been going smoothly could suddenly start being upset. I may not be here next year,
he may not be here next year, same thing with Alderman Scannell. We get other people in here
and maybe they turn this thing on its ear because we open up this door, and they start making the process of having special events
almost impossible to do and waiting two years to
un-elect those individuals is I think gonna put the city at risk. – Well I don’t know, I think the city has always
encouraged special events. – Oh they have, but I just
wonder if we started to– – But there’s a process by which people have to go through. Why is the legislative branch
being cut out of the process? I don’t think it should be. We will have no say so
whatsoever about this unless there’s an appeal, and we’re not even sure about that. – Is there any way someone
could appeal anything to do with the Special Events Committee? ‘Cause I understand you
can’t have people involved in the whole planning
process, meeting to meeting. – I don’t have the chapter. I don’t have 6.15 in front of me. I’m trying to pull it up right now. I know there’s a whole process laid out from beginning to end that
codifies that ordinance and that’s the process. – I’d like to make a
motion that we table this until our next meeting. – Okay. – If you can give us, hold
it ’til our next meeting. Give us the necessary information we need in enough time in advance
that we can review it properly so we’re well educated when we come to the meeting and discuss it. – Essentially, you would
like to see a copy of 6.15– – If you could outline
the parts that we need to be concerned with so we
understand exactly how it works. – Okay.
– Is that possible? Even if you wanna throw
in a little summary for those of us who legalese escapes us. – Sure, okay. – Okay. – Could you tell me again who makes up the Special Events Committee? ‘Cause they’re gonna make the decisions. – I know the safety manager is one member. – The safety manager,
that’s insurance department? – In HR, the safety risk manager. – Okay risk manager. – I think there’s a
representative from PD, from the fire department, from
DPW, potentially from parks. Mayor’s chief of staff, don’t
quote me on this. (laughing) I’m just working out the summary. I think those are usually
all the departments that are at the table. But it’s lined out in the
Special Events Ordinance. – Risk manager, some representative from the police department, representative from the fire department, Mayor’s chief of staff,
and you said one other? – Fire, PD, parks, DPW? – Oh, parks. And did you say PD?
– DPW because of right of way. If a street has to be blocked off. – I would imagine if it involves like say the Fourth of July celebration, they call in the coast
guard and anyone else that might be involved in that. Which is why those meetings
can be pretty lengthy. – Typically, if there’s an event that requires emergency medical services, if there’s a number of people, like for a marathon, you can
have so many EMS on hand, or if there’s fireworks,
there’s certain fire permits that have to be in place
and things like that. – I have no problem with
that group of people going through the minutia as you say and making a recommendation, but the final approval should be here in case people have concerns,
that they have a vehicle to express their concerns. Right now, they don’t have any. It’s strictly administrative. Historically, all these events used to come through, P
and W and the council. I didn’t think it was problematic, but I can remember when
there were discussions. And there was decisions of
whether they wanted one aspect over another aspect or should have in it, but I just can’t go on with
something that completely dis-involves the legislative branch and doesn’t give the public other than through their elected I guess
Mayor’s office and his staff. – Alright, so you’re
willing to hold it then, so she gets this information,
we can review it? – Well I’m thinking
we’re not talking about, I think we need to talk about this. Do we want legislative
oversight or don’t we? I hear you saying you
don’t feel we need to, that it’s just a waste of our time. – I’m not saying it’s a waste of our time and I’m not saying we don’t need to. I guess I’d like to
review the ordinance first before I start making any more comments. Well that part I don’t have
any trouble with at all but I think the main, my main concern, I just wanna express that my main concern is that I think this should find its way through the Protection Welfare
Committee and the council. – That could very well
be what we looked over, but it’s just for the
purpose of moving on. I’m just saying–
– Right. – I second the motion. – Before we hold, there were some people that did wanna talk about this. Wanting to open up the floor and get– – Certainly. Motion to open the floor.
– Motion to open the floor. – Motion by Alder Zima,
second by Alder Galvin. All in favor? – [Group] Aye. – The floor is now open
anyone care to speak on this? Please step up and name and address. – Hi, Leah Riker.
– Hi. – [Leah] 227 Allard. I’m also the executive director of Military Avenue business district. So I think a definition
perhaps is appropriate too for what is a special event, because mine is technically
on private property so I did not need to get
a special event permit. So I think it needs to be clear, ’cause there is another
farmer’s market in Green Bay that we have in the plaza parking lot. And I do allow dogs and
have for the whole year, and it has not been a problem for us. – On private property I think– – It’s not considered a special event. – It’s not right, so you
can do what you want. – Well, within reason.
– Well yeah right. – Within the ordinance.
– Yeah. – Within the ordinance, okay thank you. – My name’s Ruth, and this
is not related to the dogs. I just wanted to know on section eight, and I do apologize, I was in late, and see if it was approved for Rinconcito. – Yes, it was.
– Okay. That’s what I wanted to check. – It was approved.
– Okay. – The Little Honduran Corral was approved. – [Ruth] Oh okay. – But the committee just recommends. It’s the council that has the final say, and our next council meeting
will be the 14th of November. So that’s when it’ll be final. – [Ruth] And we should be here for that? – I don’t know if you’d
need to be, you could be. It’ll be in the room right
next door, seven o’clock. It’s a Tuesday, the 14th. – [Ruth] Oh okay, I appreciate
you letting me speak up. – I don’t think you have to,
it was not controversial here. Unless somebody in the council,
and they usually don’t. – Okay, well we wanted to make sure. The owners are there, so they just wanted to make sure everything
was honky dory. (laughing) – So far, honky Honduras. – Okay, thank you, thank you. – You never miss an opportunity, do you? – Yep. – So anyone else wish to
speak on the ordinance here? I’ll take a motion to close the floor. – Motion to close it. – Motion to close by Alder
Galvin, second it Alder Zima. All in favor? – [Group] Aye. – Okay, I’m just gonna throw my two cents. My first initial reaction is that I feel like we’re micromanaging. I don’t know that we need to, I understand Alder Zima’s point, and I kind of agree with it in many ways, but I think there is a point where the legislative makes the law, the executive executes the law and I think it might’ve changed where it just more streamlined the process. I know some of these special events, some of them can happen kind of quickly. I know, I’ve been involved signing up the Fourth of July event, and we were scrambling towards the last minute there sometimes. To then have to go through
council is a step that just adds more time to the process that
sometimes is pretty tight so. But I’m certainly willing
to keep an open mind on it and look at it all, but my
first reaction is, it’s, I feel it’s a bit of a
micromanagement on our part and not really necessary, but we’ll see. – So motion to hold, all in favor? – [Group] Aye. – Opposed? That passes, we’ll see that next P and W. Item number 13 discussion
with possible action on a request by Alder Nicholson
to review the implementation of a fee for dog permits. – I thought we had that already. – No, we don’t have a fee for dog permits. You put in a communication. – I think he was talking in
the fee when the city reviews an application for more
than two dogs or three cats or, I was sitting next to
him at the council meeting, after Officer… – Mavis? – Mavis was explaining the
process she went through, as commented that time, we’re
taking up all of her time to review these
applications of these people reimbursing the city for that time and that’s where his motion came from. He’s not here to speak to it, so maybe I shouldn’t be saying anything. – It was my impression that
that’s what he was getting at as well, but you’re right. I don’t know, I’d hate to speak for him. – Right. – Well there is time consumed, so I guess you’d have
to put a fee that was, you could treat as a user fee. – Yeah, you could only charge
what it cost on average to review one of these. – What I’m saying is that well how much time does she spend on it? – Sounds like quite a bit. – Well, then, it probably needs a fee. That might discourage things. – Staff have any input on this? – We were going to just
ask for the committee to just review or to refer this to staff so that Officer Mavis can identify any specific concerns
that the committee has, and then she can come back and report. ‘Cause we weren’t entirely
sure exactly what– – We just wanna know what’s
the average amount of time, and then maybe it can have
a fee that’s appropriate. – I don’t have the exact time, but she was here the last time I was here, and she said it takes
her quite a bit of time. So she’d send paperwork to ’em,
of course, to the neighbors that are in that block and talked to ’em and see if there are any concerns. There’s several things she does, so it all depends on how
many times she has to go back to that house and check and so it could vary exactly
how much time she spends. – Some taking more and
some take less time. – I’m sorry, what? – Some take more time, and some take less. We’re just looking for the average. – I would make a motion that
we refer this staff thing and determine how much time is invested by all city employees.
– On average. – On average. So we can come up with
an average timeframe, and then figure out what it costs the city in our wages and benefits to do that. And then we determine if
we can walk it forward. – Okay, motion by Alder
Galvin to refer this to staff, second by Alder Zima. All in favor? – [Group] Aye. – Opposed? Staff, merry Christmas, it’s all yours. And now we’re on item 14 and Captain, thank you very much. – Appreciate it.
– Ready to go? – Yep, you’re excused. Thank you for your service, sir. – I’m going straight home. Definitely no messing around. (laughing) – Item 14 discussion with possible action on a request that the city
develop a plan of action regarding the increasing rat problems on the west side of the
city, as perviously discussed at the September 25th,
2017 P and W meeting. Staff? – Was someone supposed to be here? – Well we have–
– Yep. – Oh, there he is, sorry. You were hiding in the back.
– I believe we have a copy to speak on this from inspections. – Ooh, breaking out the easel. – Bringing up the easel. Alright. Here’s an updated map. It’s gonna show the
complaints, calls or complaints that we’ve received in the last month, over a 30-day period of time. We had 62 of ’em. They’re in green. Previous ones on the
previous map were red so. – That’s on the east side, though. – No, no, it’s all west. – No, no, no, all west side. Not to say that there isn’t, but we haven’t gotten any calls. – So green is–
– The last month. – You can see the clusters. – Yep, you can see the, kind
of the clusters of the areas, where the pockets where inspectors are spending a lot of time.
– It looks like there was heavy red in some areas, now there’s none. There’s not even green. Is that due to the eradication process or being aware of it?
– I think part of it is, awareness, part of it
is baiting and trapping. The poisoning effects that are occurring and stuff kind of goes and– – You wanna take a closer look? – Rats are jumping the ship, so to speak? – [Man] Hopefully. – Do you see a reduction in the calls? – It’s still about the same. The reduction will happen
with the weather now, with it freezing. The activity that people are gonna see always decreases around this time of year. As it starts to freeze,
they start burrowing and going inward, going into garages and the activity is a little bit less. You’ll still see some of
it, but not quite as much as you see during July, August, September. – So in your opinion,
are we being successful? – I think so. Until you continue to get rid
of food, water, and harborage, they’re always gonna be here. In my opinion, they need those
things in order to survive, and those are in abundance. Throughout all those neighborhoods. I got some pictures of some
examples I just printed off from the last month of
what we’re dealing with. I met with three pest control
companies during that time, and just kinda, they reviewed
what we’ve been doing and they talked to me about their services and things of that nature. Kinda looked at a whole plan. We have updated our brochures.
This was our old brochure. Very wordy, lot of information on it. This is the new, our new updated one that we, staff came up with. We also reached out to the
city of Seattle in King county, who is having an issue with ’em as well. They gave us permission to use
this as well on our website, and to use it to consult to individuals with obviously citing their
adaptation on there as well so. – Rats can come up sewer
pipes into your toilet? – Out there, they do. I’ve contacted our sewer department, and we haven’t had that issue here, but out there, they apparently have. – You’re gonna change my
whole lifestyle, I think. (laughing)
– You dirty rat! – Yeah so as well as our–
– This is on the website now. – Our letter that we send out. That can be modified
and that can be updated. We have a generic one. We need to customize it
based off of a property owner that we’re dealing with, we can do that. So that’s our lit drop that we do. If we get complaints like in pockets like, for instance right here, what we would do is we would do a drop of the whole surrounding area that inspectors are
getting a lot of calls. Then we would give that
information out to ’em, kinda walk through what they need to do, the steps they need to take
around their properties to help eliminate the problem. And educate ’em, and enforce–
– So, winter’s coming, and there’s gonna be less complaints. Let’s say it’s the middle of summer. Do you gauge success by a
lessening of complaints, or do you gauge success by going back and visiting your
properties, or a combination? – I think it’s probably a
combination of the two of ’em. I think what happens is
in certain neighborhoods, like this past year, it was in
a new area, new neighborhood. A different area. And when it was different,
you generate a lot of calls. I think in some areas,
in some neighborhoods in Green Bay, I think they’ve
been around for a while, and I think people have
been dealing with them, and I think it becomes, “why
am I gonna call about that?” For whatever the particular reason. So it’s kinda hard to gauge those numbers. What we try to do is just
focus on the complaints that are coming in and what we’re seeing in and around the areas. – When you go into a neighborhood
and you find problems, I know you guys aren’t rat experts, but you’ve got some training so you might see something
the average guy doesn’t. Are you finding
cooperation when you notify those particular homeowners? Like that lady that talked
about all the trails going underneath her shed in the back. – Yep, the majority of the
time, when we go out there and we do an inspection and we kinda say, this is what’s happening,
this is what’s going on, generally, we get compliance. If we don’t, we have tools
that you guys have provided us in the ordinance to obey the
references where necessary. – So, you do a one-block
area around a complaint? – Yep, it’s sometimes
bigger, sometimes smaller depending on how isolated or how large. – So that’s the policy? – Yeah, it’s kind of an internal policy that we’ve been doing for quiet
some time, to do a lit drop. Sometimes what that does, is
when we do those lit drops, we’re kinda hesitant to do ’em because then that creates a lot of attention to it, which can be good, can be bad so depending on– – I guess I wonder, it’s kinda
like a lot of things going on in our society now until
attention is drawn to it, a lot of people keep it to themselves, but when they’re aware that,
oh, wow there’s a lot more of this going on, it’s not just me, and that tends to skew the numbers. I know in police work,
that can skew the numbers, and it doesn’t mean there’s
any increase in incidents. It just means more people are aware now, they’re reporting it. I’m just wondering if for
the good of the community we encouraged people to report it. Obviously we’re not gonna go
in and eradicate the rats, but if we encourage people to report it when they see something that they suspect. I also wondered if we had a policy about if you were to
go back next year where these clusters are, these
hotspots, so to speak, and start inspecting right
away at the beginning of the year when it starts warming up to maybe get a head start on those issues and see if eradication
worked or didn’t work. Not wait for the storm
that came up this year, but try to head it off
before it turns into a storm. – Yeah, that’s something
that we definitely can do. We can definitely take
more proactive approaches. That is different than what we’ve been instructed to do in the
past, ’cause we’ve been instructed to just go
based off of complaints, but we’ve always encouraged
folks to call in complaints and stuff, but with us mapping ’em and with keeping track of
kind of where these areas are, we have a whole database that
shows our calls for service and so we can kinda see
where those trends are. – Right, I guess that’s my
concern, we’re always reactive. You’re gonna have a lot of clusters and it’s gonna happen time and time again where people are gonna talk about it, and it’s gonna seem like
things are out of control where if we’re more proactive about it, and we get ourselves out there, and we get into these neighborhoods, especially where there were those, I mean there’s some
significant hotspots there. – And remember these are
just calls where people have, not saying that they’ve seen ’em. These are just calls where
conditions are conducive to– – Okay so not all of ’em, “I saw a rat”. It’s just that, “my neighbors
were talking about it. “I’m wondering if I have rats in my yard. “Can you come take a look?” – Yep, so for instance, I
printed you off some photos of some examples of some of the issues that we dealt with in the last month. – So, when you get a condition like this, they have to clean that up, right? – Yeah, that’s stuff we
handle every day, every week. – All year round? – What’s that? – All the time.
– Pretty much. We get 3,500 different complaints a year, and our nuisance inspector
handles stuff like that. – So we could be more proactive. If our inspectors were
given permission to go out annually, every year, and just
try and cover the entire city during the year instead
of waiting for a neighbor to complain about this, we
could take action sooner and potentially eradicate
some of these problems. Like I think they said, “we’ll never get rid of rats all the time, “but we can knock it down.” This would take care of
a lot of other complaints that we have, I mean
about possums, raccoons, other animals living in there, or homes that are uninhabitable or being lived in when
they’ve been abandoned. – See what happens now
is when we get a call, our inspectors are instructed
to do a look-around inspection so it’s limited proactivity. So if we get a call at
XYZ property, she’ll look at the neighboring properties to see if there’s similar issues going
on, going on there as well. – Are these, these green and
black things, are those– – More apples.
– Apples. – So that’s an example of a food source. we hear comments, well
what is the city doing, well we need resident’s help too, that if you have a fruit tree, if you have a food-bearing tree or plant, you need to care for that. You need to clean up after it. So that’s an example of
somebody’s having an apple tree, and they just need to pick up
the apples around the property so you’re not providing a food source. Same thing with water. You’ll see pictures of stagnant
water and standing water whether it be in tires or in buckets or different things like that. That’s what we’re
talking about when we say food, water, shelter. – This kinda stuff? – [Man] Yep, that’s exterior storage. Provides an area for harborage. – How much nicer would this community be and how much easier would it be to eradicate these problems that we had a proactive inspection department? That went out and tried
to hit every neighborhood once a year looking for problems. I mean is that feasible? – Depends on what you’re inspecting. If it’s just exterior nuisance stuff– – I’m talking about
obvious stuff like this. I’m not talking about
nickel-and-dimeing people. – [Man] That wouldn’t be that depending on what you’re talking about. – I’m talking about this kinda stuff where it’s obvious this is not just rats. There could be all sorts of
varmints living in there. Feral cats, dogs, I mean you name it. Like this, the standing water. This gets into not only that, but the whole West Nile virus has been found in Brown County. I mean that’s a, those are
the things I’m talking about. – [Man] Yep and that’s why
I’m bringing them to you. Because that’s what shows the example of when you get into that
reactivity type process. It’s you can only do so much then when you’re being reactive. – But and that’s why I’m so, but is it feasible that we could take care of some of these obvious, glaring issues? Do we have the staff, do we have the time? – [Man] It would be, possibly. We would have to give
it a trial run to see with the staff that we have
to see how effective we do it. ‘Cause right now, we have one neighborhood compliance inspector whose
primary job is to do that. We could try other techniques
and try other things as far as during different times of the year and how we’re utilizing
the resources we have, but we have to give it a try to see exactly how much we can handle. – Okay. Is this a separate that
I’m starting to bark up a tree around, or– – No, we covered talking about policy. – Why do you want to
bark up a tree, though? – We’re working on a rat policy. I wonder if waste pick-up, if, you know, when they’re
picking up the garbage, I know they don’t get really out of their trucks or anything, but I wonder if public
works could also help out in that if they notice, they could report. – [Man] Yeah, anybody can
report stuff right now. So I’m not saying that– – I don’t know if we’ve told them– – They’re familiar with
our inspection processes. They support us, they help
us do a lot of cleanup. So on some of those pictures that you see where there’s garbage
and litter going around, pm Wednesdays they’ll work with us. So, they know if they see stuff like that, where it’s garbage and stuff piling up, that they would call us in. – What am I missing on this one? – [Man] The garbage bags next to the– – Ah, okay. – So minor thing, that’s very minor, but that can, if there’s a rat problem and that’s been sitting
out there over night, now you’ve supplied, that’s a food source. – I’m not trying to
dump on city employees, but since I got elected, I’ve had people complain about grass. There was one lot in particular that was over 30 inches long. Obviously, city employees,
I’m talking about police, fire they’ve all been driving by that, but for some reason, it didn’t register. And I guess that’s, I mean
I like what Randy’s saying. Educate the employees to be more aware ’cause they work for the entire city, not just DPW, not just police. But when they see these situations, I know when I was on the job,
if we walked into a house, we would call inspection or
fire if we saw issues like that. – And any time that we get a complaint and it has long passed, we
immediately refer that over to DPW ’cause they’re the
ones that handle the long. So we’ll note that,
we’ll keep track of that in our complaint tracking,
then we’ll refer that over to the responsible parties. We try to educate even internally, too. If you’re seeing stuff,
let us know about it so we can get on top of it. – Anything? – So the plan you developed is what? Just do as we were doing?
– Education and enforcement. If we need to, there are
funds in public spaces. For instance, when the
city acquires a property, if there’s, say it’s on the west side or east side, wherever it is, if there evidence of an infestation, we’ll contract with a pest exterminator to come out there and evade the problem. If it’s in public areas, we
could possibly do that as well. Parks, things like that. On private property, it
would be my recommendation and my professional opinion
that we don’t do that, because there isn’t an
equitable way we could take one person’s taxpayer
dollars and say this taxpayer on this street should get that service. There’s no equitable
way to be able do that. – That’s true with everything. The taxing situation. Some people have no children, and they still have to
pay taxes to the schools. – Based on my experience and
the inspectors’ experience that are out there and what we’re seeing, like I said many times
food, water, harborage. Those are the criterias that they need. Until you eliminate that,
taking any kind of money, whether some of these pest control people, that they do a great job. $8,500 an hour for their service. Until you take away the food
sources, the water sources, the areas of harborage, you could continue to throw money at it, but
that is still gonna be there. You’re never gonna get rid of it. It’s just a never-ending
cycle that it’s creating. So you’re not taking care of
the root cause of the problem, you’re only throwing money
at it and then temporarily making it go down, then it’ll pop back up until it’s being reactive. So that’s why I say in
order to be effective, we need to eliminate
harborage, we need to eliminate the food sources, we need to
eliminate the water sources. If you’re having an issue,
if you do those things, the rats will go away. If you need to hire an
exterminator, I think that that, If it’s an enforcement thing, we have the ability to enforce that. If we have a property where
somebody’s in non-compliance and they’re creating a nuisance, like some of the pictures that I showed, and they have a rat infestation, we have enforcement tools that can help the neighboring properties to say, that person needs to hire a professional in order to evade the problem because you’re contributing to it. We have that ability to do that. – We do that already, don’t we? – We do, we do. – I mean if somebody complains about rats at their neighbor’s property, we go and write orders on it don’t we? – Yep, yep, if evidence, they
have to comply with that. So that’s why we have all those tools. But to just hire somebody for the sake of, I don’t think it’s an appropriate
use of taxpayer dollars. – You would just hire them,
they’d go out and poison a few, and the rest would flee
to the next property that’s unkept and unsightly. We’re just moving the problem. – So what you’re doing, like I said with food, water, harborage. That’s the biggest thing
that we need to get education out there, is it can be
stuff that’s perfectly legal in the city ordinance that allows, but that is food and shelter
and water sources for ’em, too. – Yeah, what was that? – Well I think those are reactive
things that our department has always done, and we
will continue to do that, but I have to say that
the rat complaints are at an all-time high in my 40
years on the city council. I had two more just over the weekend. I say, well, what’s changed? I heard these theories that
well the river levels are up, they’re forced out of
their normal hangouts in the sewers and stuff like that so that you don’t see them. So they’re going to higher land and finding their way into neighborhoods. Do you know, is that a fact? – I can’t speak to the river levels. I’m no expert in water
levels or anything like that, but what I can speak to is the abundance of food sources in the neighborhoods. The abundance of resources
that, once they’re in the neighborhoods, it
allows the populations to grow. – Well it seems even that once. I feel one of the
differences could be the fact that we don’t do bulk
pickup the way we used to. We used to do it every single week. Somebody put stuff out, we picked it up and I, I know that some people when they saw somebody put a boat load of stuff out in front of
their property, they say, “why has everybody’s gotta pay for that?” I guess, I just think the
service should be there and we should just bill people when it’s over a certain amount
or something like that. – That is coming up with the INS. I did talk to Director Garnier,
we were in communication, and that will be coming up with INS. – What do we do about
situations like this then, for bulk pickup? Whether it be in a garage
or when they throw it around their backyard? – They might have to be
charged or something. – But no, that’s the point
is they don’t put it out. – Because they do bulk
pickup twice a year. You can also bring these bulk
items to the drop-off sites. All you need is a trailer
or a pickup truck or– – Not everybody has one of those. I don’t know. You’d like to think that
you know somebody that does. – Well I’d like to think that
people take responsibility that when they have
trash or stuff like that that they take care of it. – But INS will be taking this up. – I’m gonna talk more generally. We had a bulk pickup
for a period of history that I know of until
four, five, six years ago when it was taken out of the budget. We got aggressive with
billing people and all that. Well is that leading to
people not getting rid of stuff like they used to? I don’t know, I guess
it’s anybody’s opinion, but maybe we ought to have a bulk pickup the first pickup of the
month or something like that. At least once a month, and see if that helps eliminate some of
our problems, maybe it does. There are some things
that have nothing to do with whether the bulk
pickup’s there or not, but obviously, if somebody’s
itching to get charged. I had a comment about it, but– – That might be a solution. (talking over each other) – I think the rat situation
is the worst that it’s been, in my knowledge. I’m worried that there’s some people that don’t know how to deal with it, and they you know, they’re
just like, “well where do I go? “What do I do?”
– In what way? What way would they not
know how to deal with it? Not know who to call or not know? – Well. Somebody that’s a 75-year-old
lady that lives alone and there’s a hole going
underneath the garage. There are people that just
wouldn’t know what to do. – I agree with you. I think part of our issue
here may be bulk pickup. I also think part of our
issue here is our inspection probably went from proactive to reactive. I think that poor old woman
who maybe doesn’t get out in her yard as much anymore or she has some kid cut the grass, and he doesn’t know, but I think if we were to have
a more proactive inspection and are going out and are looking and maybe she’s doing everything right but her neighbor’s got grass up to here and there’s dog feces and
all that, food source, everything he’s talking about, habitat and now they’re burrowing into her garage or her shed or her house.
– Well I agree with you. – So I think with a more
proactive inspection plan. – I don’t want to get carried away either, but I think where we see an
abundance of calls in an area that you know we said they’re out putting out information and stuff. But, and you’re making inspections of the properties then too? – We had six, there’s 62 of these calls or inspections that we did. Those are representing the green dots. – And you’ve written orders on those? – Not all of them, some of
them that needed orders, some of them did not have orders if everything was in compliance
with the city ordinances, let’s say their firewood
was stacked and stowed, you know they had bird feeders, but they, you know, they’re
allowed things like that that we have nothing
to write an order about because there isn’t any type of enforcement violation then we wouldn’t. We would simply educate them and tell them these are the steps you need
to do, here’s a brochure, here some, we’ll walk them
through the whole process of why they’re there,
what they’re looking for and what they can do to
take our recommendations. – Well it seems to me that
maybe they ought to be proactive and have a half time position or something that just works on these things. – Well I’d like to refer
to staff to look at, and help me word this right, but have staff from inspection
develop a proactive plan where they would increase
proactive inspections looking for these obvious problems that lend itself to not just rats but other issues with wildlife and you know mosquitoes, things like that. If they could study it and come back with some recommendations on what they think they would need. You know maybe it’s going back and just drawing a bigger loop
around these problem areas and being proactive for
one year in those areas or if it’s try to do the whole city. Instead of waiting for the complaints ’cause by the time we get the complaints most of the times it’s a bad problem. It’s severely overgrown or
there’s a serious infestation. So I guess that’s my
recommendation or my motion, that staff look into
how to be more proactive with inspections to try and
head off these situations before they become the problems that we’re seeing on this map here. – Well we need info. – It may very well be, I
guess I would wait to see what staff recommends and
then take it from there and then we can chew on it at that time. – So you want to refer
that idea back to them? – Yes, that was my
motion, to refer to staff but see if they can come up
with an actionable plan on– – Well they’ve come back with a plan so you want something more than that? – I want a proactive plan.
– For inspection? – City wide or just what
they feel would be something that what can they do at this point with the staff they have? How proactive can they be, how effective do they think they can be? – Well I second the motion. I don’t have any problem with it. – I mean part of the recommendation may be that there’s better education
of all city employees that when they see these
things they can call it in and get it handled sooner. – You had mentioned earlier
how do certain things just seem to get a pass forever
and there’s 30 inside rats? And I think that’s what you
mean by proactive, you wanna– – Right. – Hey somebody looking for this stuff or you’d think there’d be complaints. – There’s certain areas where,
certain areas of the city that are very good at
sending in complaints and calling in complaints.
– Right. – There are other areas of the city that, whatever it is, they don’t,
they won’t call in complaints, they won’t have it be addressed until– – Right, somebody steps in
and then they’ll complain. – Somebody steps in and then it usually creates a domino effect. – We have a, you have a railroad
that never cuts the grass. It’s like an act of God. There’s fields out, in
the old railroad yards there near the viaduct
on oh Ashland Avenue. – Now I’m getting reports from people. When there’s grass that’s
this high and it’s just there and you know that’s harborage
for all kinds of critters. – Sure. – I, in this past 10 days
I’ve seen two possums. I said Watson that
doesn’t look like a rat, but I mean it was crawling
across the street you know. So I don’t know it– – Squirrels can create
just as much damage, probably even more damage
inside of property, inside a house and yet
we have problems with– – They were in my attic and my neighbor, they chewed holes into our roof– – And how much damage did they do? – I showed you the picture
of the hole in my roof. – So I mean, but we have
people that feed those, we have people that throw
seeds and bread and peanuts, that like to feed the squirrels,
that they like to do that. – Well should we import some hawks? – I already have two
hawks in my neighborhood. But they’re just, I have owls too, but they’re just not cleaning up enough. I mean my neighbor, he was up
there, he had holes this big in his soffit, wood soffit,
they chewed right through it and they were in his attic. When I had my roof redone two years ago they found three squirrel
nests in my attic so it’s, yeah there’s a lot of problems. – That’s nuts. – And it’s not just rats, I
mean Officer Mavis can talk, she talked at our council
meeting about feral cats, people feeding feral cats, but then it creates a domino effect. You’re feeding the feral cats but that also is a food source then for rats and for everything else. So the point of it is
I mean it’s kind of a, we can have all sorts of
plans and all sorts of, but it all comes down to what
we want to put the focus on and what we want the– – I guess that’s what I’m
asking for your recommendation, based on the types of complaints we have what it would take to be more proactive to try and never eliminate it altogether but to reduce it and again
it’s a healthier community where you’re not having rats and I remember seeing skunks when I was patrolling on a night shift and they’re all over the alleys getting into the garbage and stuff. – That stinks. – They’re the second most
rabid animal in the world and we just had a bad test positive for rabies in Brown County so, you know these are
concerns, health concerns that we have to be thinking about and so that’s what I’m looking for is your best recommendation on what it would take with what you have, what you’re capable
that you think of doing and then if you don’t think that’s enough what you think it would take.
– Okay. – I second the motion.
– Okay. – Okay and as far as– – I think we gotta, and
we’ve seen prudent services slipping at the bulk pickup.
– Yep and so we need to– – I think we gotta look at
the big industrial areas that are not cleaning up their properties. Put somebody to work on it tomorrow. – It’s no different
than an abandoned home, an abandoned industrial site. – I should’ve brought it along here today. People are so disgusted about it they said “we’re looking to move out of Green Bay.” They just bought a home a couple years ago near the railroad back there. They said “we’re looking
to get out of here” because they see critters coming across. They don’t want to live
with rats and stuff there. And they said “when’s
somebody gonna do something “about the railroad
across, the railroad yard.” It’s not the railroad yard, it’s big, you know it’s just overgrown areas. And then you know it’s
like a wild life area. And you know they don’t even cut the grass out by the streets and stuff like that. – Speaking of the railroad, I myself when I was doing inspections
I’ve written orders to the railroad several times and I have a hard time with compliance. Just being blunt and being honest. I have a hard time getting any response. – Well look at the trouble
we have with the roads. I mean they’re supposed to be taking care of the tracks, but they don’t. – I’ve done several, some
reduce and abatements myself where we’ve fixed fences that were damaged and just didn’t get any response. – Well then. Maybe you gotta go to your
congressman or something, – Yep.
– I don’t know. – Maybe that’s what we should do is send a message from
the city to our congress. – We can’t, we can cut
other people’s property but we can’t cut the railroads? – No we can. That’s what I was saying that we’ve done. If they’re not gonna abate the nuisance yeah then we would go about it and then we would bill
them like anybody else. – Those are obvious things.
– Right. – I mean– – Have those folks filed a complaint? – Enough to paddle with me into this. And they’ve a couple times, they’ve said that they filed a complaint to the city twice and there’s
been no response whatever. – Yeah I would have them
suggest where they file the complaint to and follow
up and figure out why. I mean I that’s what I do and if somebody calls in a complaint and if it’s inspection related I would ask well what was
done and what was your action. We track it all for inspections. – This the railroad yard there, way up near the railroad yard. They bought a home
there a couple years ago and trying to make their home and, they just out and out said they’re looking to sell their house and get out of Green Bay. Yep, that’s what they said. – Getting back to the rats–
– Well they’re darn god rats. – They’re growing because of the food. – They don’t like the rats.
– Yeah because of the food, because of the harborage areas, that’s why that they’re there. – Do you think the world
has changed all that much? – The abundance of food
that they have, no, I mean it’s they’re in every city. You look at the top 50, every
city that has a lot of people have rats because there’s
sanitation issues, agriculturally and people growing food, they’re always dealing with rodents, there’s always dealing
with pest management, that’s just part of, they’ve been around since you
know, the beginning of time. Animals and rodents and pest
issues and things like that so they multiply in the abundance, when the resources are abundant. When the resources are not
abundant the numbers go down. The numbers are up because if
you go in the neighborhoods the food sources are up,
the water sources are up, all of those things. Some of ’em ordinance allows, some of ’em ordinance doesn’t allow. – I don’t think human nature
has changed all that much. What things have changed? – Well some of it is social media– – And some of it, you fix
an area and they move, I mean they’re on the move. – And people are more
aware of the rat problems so they’re complaining more. If you look on social media that’s all you see them talking about. On you know rats this, rats that and then the news does a story on it and makes people more aware and so now suddenly they’re saying oh. – Habitat disruption.
– Yeah. They’re saying “oh well we can
call the city to complain.” – Properties being razed,
streets, roads are being repaired, all of that will disturb
any wildlife’s habitat. They’re gonna move, they’re
gonna be active to try to look for another habitat where
nobody bothers them. Rats are very skittish, they’re not, they’re gonna look for some place where nobody’s gonna bother them, where they have an abundance of food where they can just sneak out
and go get their food and– – I’ve seen them crawling in
and out of the storm sewers and then into the yards, I
mean they’re very adaptive. – “Can’t we just be friends?” Don’t you remember the movie?
– No. – Ben.
– Oh god that one. – Remember? – We’re all, the short, we’re all ears. Whatever, I mean we’re gonna
take whatever recommendations that this community has
and the council so I mean, we’ll do the best with– – Grant your motion with
the second, all in favor? – Aye.
– Aye, opposed? Thank you sir and I’ll
take a motion to adjourn. – Motion to adjourn. – Motion filed again, second
order, Zima all in favor, aye. We are adjourned. Oh I’m sorry, did you want to speak up on this at all I should’ve– – No I just was, I wanted
to stay for the last part because I live over in that area. – Okay, I meant to ask if there’s anybody who wanted to speak on this. – [Woman] I do have a
question, where do they go? Are we killing them, are
they just burying them? – A little of both I’d say. – [Woman] Do they just
go back in the sewers? – Oh you want that. – The one’s that are alive?
– Yeah. – They’ll move and regrow and
they’ll find another area– – [Woman] So they’re really not dead, they’re just moving around? – Some of ’em are being killed. – You can frame the art if you want. – Sure. – Would you like any, look here in the– (chattering over each other) Alright, not too bad. (chattering over each other) This was fun, let’s do it again some time. – Yes. – You know just driving down Hardy Ave, the back side of the shadow, it’s nothing but three foot weeds and my girlfriend’s live on that street and I said why don’t
you call and complain? They could get all the
cut down and make it clean so you can see stuff crawling
around in there you know. – [Woman] I gotta say I don’t think it would ever occur to me– – This is all recyclable? – [Woman] I don’t think
it would ever occur to me to file a complaint,
but if I did see that– – Thank you.
– So long thank you. – No thank you.
(laughing) (chattering over each other) I think we should put
these in the recycler, there’s a bin right there.
– Okay. – We have all this here.
– I have a lot. – I can do this. (chattering over each other) Okay. (chattering over each other) Electric shocks? – Right, no whippings or beatings. – Yeah but the electric shocks. – Right. I’ll just close this off, but I wanted to just
kind of hear info and– – Okay. – Put that together.

Daniel Yohans

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